Curse

ajc2123 · Oct 03, 2010, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Ok when I see a warrior just standing in the fort healing himself, and doing nothing else, and still diverting tons of damage/enchant removal from turtle, that tells me gameplay is flawed.

You can argue that the whole team could take him down quickly then move on, but honestly, he spawns seconds later and returns to abuse this function. With this and kurzicks running amber, it makes for an already hard win for the luxons.

I suggest this, If the siege turtle misses his attack, then his AI tells him to move forward 10 feet on its predetermined path (or switch targets, or moves until another target is found)

That way, it doesn't make the turtles progress further than it normally would, but at least it can attack the damn stallers when it needs to. If it misses and there are lots of foes in the area, it just switches targets, so if its in the inner base, it won't progress further than us.

Any other ideas for its change? Its path, Aggro range, anything you want to try? This is my suggestion. All I know is, the way the stallers play, its terrible. It requires no skill, and actually diverts a lot of damage for doing very little. Specially for Randomized teams

Please anet, I know do SOMETHING about this arena. I love it and hate it so much. Healing npcs I understand, it takes skill (more than I have) and its a valid tactic seen in other PvP formats. Healing yourself and just standing there looking 'pretty'? Wtf. seriously.

Yes this is part rant, but its also a serious suggestion. Any ideas?

AndroBubbles · Oct 03, 2010, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Siege turtles have enormous aoe power (which removes one enchantment from *every single enemy the siege hits) and are hard to interrupt now. They have relatively high armor and direct damage reduction, and come with four luxon npc warriors. They are ridiculously easy to respawn and relatively easy to keep alive. Blind does nothing against them, nor does any other condition in terms of directly inhibiting their damage output. Yet you complain because their AI tells them to kill something before moving on, when you could just be more productive yourself. I don't see a huge reason to improve them much more, considering their Kurzick equivalent is still a walking pile of crap with some green stuff attached. The only real thing I would say could be improved without making them more IMBA is to make their targeting better. Aim for where you will hit the most people, perhaps?

Zodiac Meteor · Oct 03, 2010, 05:25 AM // 05:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

Yes this is part rant, but its also a serious suggestion. Any ideas?

A warrior? Bah, 1 Soul Twist Rit = GG with communing spirits eating NPC damage AND stop a Turtle in it's tracks.

Fix: When Turtle skills are recharging, TURTLE MOVES and not just wait there for recharge.
Also it prioritizes NPC's over players.

Oh and lastly:
Clean Shell: If their is no foes in earshot, Siege Turtle losses all hexes and conditions and gains 10 health for each one removed.

Quote:

I don't see a huge reason to improve them much more, considering their Kurzick equivalent is still a walking pile of crap with some green stuff attached. The only real thing I would say could be improved without making them more IMBA is to make their targeting better. Aim for where you will hit the most people, perhaps?

You probably don't FA much, 1 person can completely stop a turtle just by standing in 1 spot. The turtle will constantly try to attack the person stalling it with their beastly AoE, hitting for only 5 damage.

It's frustrating that you can't do anything to move the Turtle to the Kurzick NPC's and it will just fire pointlessly. Stop that off get 1 monk and the Gate can NEVER get breached with the turtle distracted.

AndroBubbles · Oct 03, 2010, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

A warrior? Bah, 1 Soul Twist Rit = GG with communing spirits eating NPC damage AND stop a Turtle in it's tracks.

Fix: When Turtle skills are recharging, TURTLE MOVES and not just wait there for recharge.
Also it prioritizes NPC's over players.

Oh and lastly:
Clean Shell: If their is no foes in earshot, Siege Turtle losses all hexes and conditions and gains 25 health for each one removed.

So the turtle could just walk into a mob of npcs that may not have died because it's in between siege attacks.

Epic lulz at your last suggestion. Turtles do not need self healing. It's easy enough to keep them alive as is.

Zodiac Meteor · Oct 03, 2010, 05:33 AM // 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndroBubbles

Epic lulz at your last suggestion. Turtles do not need self healing. It's easy enough to keep them alive as is.

They don't need healing, but get some degen on it and flee means the death of it. No monk = GG. It would be like the Guild Lord without Oath of Protection.

Sure Kurzick NPC's don't have anything as a heal but Turtles turn the tide of the fight, just like the Guild Lord keeping it alive is VITAL. Their strong but wither away at degen easily.

To top that players can repair gates and get their NPC's back instantly, for Turtles all 4 Luxon warriors must die before it can respawn. Which also leads to broken Luxon warrior AI, thus having a turtle never respawn.

AndroBubbles · Oct 03, 2010, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

They don't need healing, but get some degen on it and flee means the death of it. No monk = GG. It would be like the Guild Lord without Oath of Protection.

Sure Kurzick NPC's don't have anything as a heal but Turtles turn the tide of the fight, just like the Guild Lord keeping it alive is VITAL. Their strong but wither away at degen easily.

To top that players can repair gates and get their NPC's back instantly, for Turtles all 4 Luxon warriors must die before it can respawn. Which also leads to broken Luxon warrior AI, thus having a turtle never respawn.

Either team can easily lose without any monks. If you're going to propose that kind of monster skill/effect, you have to give it to all the npcs, and not just this one in particular. Also, it is not as easy to repair the gates as you would have everybody think. You have to capture mines, then run amber (possibly past mobs and people who can follow you through a gate if you need to open it) all the way back to the gatekeepers, who not only cannot repair gates if they are dead, they cannot repair gates if they are aggroed by something, which means it only takes one person to keep you from repairing your gates for a prolonged period of time, depending on the killing power of your team.

And I used to play FA quite a lot, thanks very much. The main problem with turtles is their targeting, but as individual npcs they are extremely powerful. I would advocate improving this one part of their AI, but any farther than that and you just boost the power creeping some more. That said, there are plenty of improvements that could be made to both the Luxon and Kurzick sides, not including turtles of all things.

Skye Marin · Oct 03, 2010, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Why not support the turtle with a few mesmery-type skills (Shatter Enchantment, Mark of Insecurity, Defile Flesh, Signet of Twilight, etc...) to break the line, and push forward with it? What am I missing?

Skyy High · Oct 03, 2010, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

You can argue that the whole team could take him down quickly then move on, but honestly, he spawns seconds later and returns to abuse this function. With this and kurzicks running amber, it makes for an already hard win for the luxons.

If you kill him, that should be ample time for the turtle to move forward into a position where he can do some damage before the warrior gets back.

Really, the only time this is really a problem is when a ranger stands on the top rampart shooting the Orange turtle indefinitely...but then again, the ranger actually has a chance at killing the turtle, and shooting things from high up is definitely a bow user's thing. If monks bonding gates are a problem, bring enchant removal. If rangers stalling turtles are a problem, bring non-LoS damage/hexes/interrupts. I'm telling you that snagging one of my Trolls is a sure-fire way to make me back off of tanking the turtle.

ajc2123 · Oct 03, 2010, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

If you kill him, that should be ample time for the turtle to move forward into a position where he can do some damage before the warrior gets back.

Really, the only time this is really a problem is when a ranger stands on the top rampart shooting the Orange turtle indefinitely...but then again, the ranger actually has a chance at killing the turtle, and shooting things from high up is definitely a bow user's thing. If monks bonding gates are a problem, bring enchant removal. If rangers stalling turtles are a problem, bring non-LoS damage/hexes/interrupts. I'm telling you that snagging one of my Trolls is a sure-fire way to make me back off of tanking the turtle.

Not enough time when there is another target (that is actually doing something though) nearby, and with IMS, really not enough time to stall for long. Prolly 5 feet of progress if your lucky.

I have no problem with the ranger, as he is actively trying to do something. the biggest irk i have is the tank is just standing there and diverting a nuke and 4 warriors worth of damage.\ while doing nothing. AND not getting hit.

Jonzcrusher · Oct 03, 2010, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Personally I think that the turtles should have some kinda threat assessment ai, so if the War is just standing there picking daisies the turtle should move on instead of focusing in on the on guy doing no damage. Also my biggest grip is that the turtles still get stuck for no reason, happened 4 out of 5 games I played the other day. Who needs a war to stand and pick daisies when they turtle decides to pick some it self.

Jeydra · Oct 04, 2010, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Really, the only time this is really a problem is when a ranger stands on the top rampart shooting the Orange turtle indefinitely...but then again, the ranger actually has a chance at killing the turtle, and shooting things from high up is definitely a bow user's thing. If monks bonding gates are a problem, bring enchant removal. If rangers stalling turtles are a problem, bring non-LoS damage/hexes/interrupts. I'm telling you that snagging one of my Trolls is a sure-fire way to make me back off of tanking the turtle.

The Ranger can hold aggro for the turtle even if he isn't attacking it. This needs a fix. Few things are more frustrating than losing FA because of idiotic AI (think VoD, except this is even worse than that).

chuckles79 · Oct 11, 2010, 09:38 PM // 21:38

If the entire luxon alliance is stalled because of one wammo, then maybe you deserve to lose.
The turtles have 4 hammer warriors along with it, in addition to a 2nd turtle group moving up, and finally 8 possibly capable players. Meanwhile the 8 Kurz. players are spread out trying to bring in amber from the mines.
I've seen some tough warriors, but have yet to see one that cannot be killed.

Shriketalon · Oct 11, 2010, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Giving the absurdly overpowered turtles more abilities or better functionality is not the answer. Distributing their power is.

The 4 warriors around the turtle are the worst combination of completely useless in all the right ways and ridiculously potent in the wrong ones. They are great, fiendishly great at ganking someone with AI-perfect-timing Coward! spam to completely trap a single character, and they can do absolutely nothing else.

Instead of approaching every problem by thinking about only the Turtle, why not fix the group carrying him?

Shorten the turtle's range to that of casters (it is downright pathetic to have NPCs sitting around, waiting to die when he opens fire), and get rid of its enchantment removal (because taking 1 damage from a stray shot forty feet away, but still having an enchantment broken is just poor design). Replace two of the warriors with a Mesmer and a Ritualist. The Mesmer would be an expert at breaking bonds and interrupting casters, and the Rit would have AoE channeling and a little bit of regeneration for the turtle via Weapon Spells.

That means the Kurzick NPCs would actually fight, and the Luxon team could actually support their turtle, rather than having a glass cannon completely determining the scope of the battle.

makosi · Oct 11, 2010, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Turtle-griefer wammos were much more irritating before the Defy Pain nerf since their bar was entirely heals, armour boosts and damage reduction. You had to be a curse necro or Diversion spammer to handle those bitches.

Soul Twisting is dumb in all formats of the game. I love abusing it but it needs to be re-worked entirely.

I support ajc2123's idea whereby the turtles proceed some distance while skills are recharging to as that they cannot be stalled indefinitely. I know some people are thinking, "why not just spec against the turtle griefers?" but FA has an objective and too many other obstacles to worry about.

Just Sai · Oct 12, 2010, 12:47 AM // 00:47

no point raging, learn to deal with it
if its a spirit gaze it, if its a person, kill them and the turtle will advance
if your turtle fails to spawn, then there are surviving warriors from that side
all else fails just press forward, there are 2 sides, maintain constant pressure

X CDH X · Oct 12, 2010, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Ft Aspenwood is pretty much fine - All they need to fix IS THE DAMN TURTLE GETTING STUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So annoying when about 2/5 games it just sits at the ele gate... Honestly factions has been out for ages and still this lame bug is there.

If there is a good Kurz team with healers v a good Lux team with healers Kurz would have a slight advantage I believe so Luxons do need the turtle to be effective in winning games.

I don't really complain about player builds - defy pain/ST Rit/camping rangers as they are using OP for the arena skills and not really playing unfairly and anyone with half a brain can take these people out or cause them to retreat enough so everything keeps moving.

makosi · Oct 15, 2010, 06:00 PM // 18:00

/signing this idea.

Also, suspend the accounts of people who repeatedly leave/leech. If you can ban folks for using the N-word, start banning folks for actually disrupting others' play experience.

Lhim · Oct 18, 2010, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by X CDH X

All they need to fix IS THE DAMN TURTLE GETTING STUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This. We'll see from there.

DoomFrost · Oct 18, 2010, 11:47 AM // 11:47

The turtle AI shouldn't focus on players but rather just the Kurzick NPC's that way players on the Kurzick side can't stall the turtle and will rather have to rely on actually killing it.

jayce · Oct 19, 2010, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Dec 14, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayce

Everyone is whining about the turtles. I still haven't seen the juggernaunt be of any use whatsoever. I have never seen the juggernaunt 2-shot anything. Single target or AoE. And rarely will the lone juggernaunt ever reach one of the two turtles to combat it. If it does, the juggernaunt should kill it almost instantly to make up for the insane damage the turtles do to everyone else.